how did longmire get the scars on his back

As you might have guessed things have a way of happening, especially when an old dog like Longmire has spent a lifetime doing what he feels is right even when it doesnt make others happy. Inside, Walt asks Susan if she knows where her husband is. While examining the sheep, Walt spots ravens circling something else. Branch is taken down a notch when he learns a man was shot. Lou Diamond Phillips character is usually very careful about how he speaks. He waits for the shooter's car to come around a bend so the driver's side is facing him, then fires left-handed. They might even speak to a certain yearning in American audiences, real or imagined, for the mythology of Big Sky Country, where both citizens and local lawmen remain suspicious of federal interference. Vic was pregnant at the end of season 5, but not very far along. -. An then Longmire get that bunch behind the plot to have Henry put in jail for murder.Walt an Vickie get together .wish it would come back on tonight love it can't wait to see it. WebEki szlk - kutsal how did david hayman get his facial scars kayna - eki szlk - kutsal bilgi /a > Auxiliary data Walker Lynda Walker in Lynda La Plante 's long-running crime thriller Trial & Retribution, which ran for twelve from! Durant, Wyoming When A&E cancelled the show after the third season Netflix picked it up for a She is a graduate of University of Wyoming College of Law (Wyomings only law school). The next morning, Avo pulls up to the cabin. The gun doesn't fire. Relatives Walt directs Branch to investigate Parkford's gun and hunting license, the plates from the crime scene, and potential witnesses. The preferred way to carry his firearm is mag inserted, round chambered, hammer cocked, safety on, or Condition 1. Billy claims that he saw it through the high-powered scope on his rifle. Unnamed Grandmother Walts actual hat is our beaver blend which is about @70 beaver and costs $725. Early in season 6 she is shot and loses the baby. So Logan has grown up in the school of very, very hard knocks. 2. As a novelist and a screenwriter, he enjoys promoting one story or another. When the series begins, it is believed by most that his wife, Martha Longmire, died of cancer. There is another body in the snow - and this one is human. Sheriff Longmires daughter, and Branchs girlfriend. Good ol' boy father and son, Bob and Billy Barnes are drinking beer for breakfast. As much as I searched I never could find a distinctive answer. Everything skirts around the story of Longmire. The closest I could find was one tha Perhaps that spirit guided me once upon a time as well. In all of the Longmire books as well as the Joe Pickett books, a hat is never left brim down. In cowboy country it just isnt done. However, since Walt is amused, but has no intention of letting her go home. In the same book, Cady marries Philadelphia Police Officer Michael Moretti, the brother of Walts undersheriff, Vic Moretti, on the Rez; Michael and she had been seeing each other since Kindness Goes Unpunished and engaged since The Dark Horse. Once the Absaroka County sheriff, Lucian now lives in a retirement community where he often causes trouble out of boredom. Scars are evident on his back. Walt drives into the small town of Durant, Wyoming with the body laid out in his back seat wrapped in a tarp. Henry both reassures him and agrees he's lost a step. Walt and Henry arrested Malachi Strand for extortion charges in the Tribal Police Station. Walts experience is complemented by that of his new partner, Vic (Katee Sackhoff), a former Philadelphia homicide detective. Longmire season 4, episode 8 review: The Hector legend takes unexpected turn. Does Longmire end up with Vic? Anyone who actually knows Walt knows that he only drinks Ranier beer. In the show, Walt Longmire is portrayed by actor Robert Taylor. It slides at high speed until everything goes dark. As Walt steps out of the car, Mathias, a Cheyenne police officer, rushes him and throws a punch to his jaw. Also the third episode with the barn fire and horse that died had a similar setup to the book the Dark Horse with the fire, but thats all. Jocelyn orders her child soldiers to brand Michonne and Daryl with Xs, marking their targets before eliminating them. The scene closes with a familiar shot, one man stalking out through saloon-style doors, the other left behind, a low angle on his face making clear that hes contemplating the almost showdown. decarillion check with your local library. He tells Walt to look elsewhere. He strains to reach for the knife, and grunting with pain, cuts free of the strap. 2. Since Jonas never traveled between being the Stranger (1888) and Adam (1921), the scars appeared at a time where he wasn't traveling. May's boyfriend heard Lilly was working as a prostitute, but she refuses to believe it. 'Longmire': Walt Reveals That He Cheated On His Wife To Vic Its thought that he does this because he likes to think before he draws and shoots, and cocking the hammer is that extra split second he needs to think. It wasn't until he was 25 and saw his first gunshot victim as a sheriff deputy, that he realized the scar on his thigh uncannily resembled a bullet wound. The novels were all about Walt Longmire so its fair to say that a lot of the source material might have managed to find its way into the show in one way or another. The Calling Back 56m. And when he comes for you, Im just a phone call and a twenty-minute drive away. The Bronco pulls up to Pronghorn Ridge where Walt's deputy, Victoria "Vic" Moretti, is waiting. Timothy V. Murphy. Walt later confronts Barlow, who broke into the formers home and (drunkenly) admits to killing his son in a bid to keep Walt from realizing the truth about Marthas murder. It reveals right off some festering tensions between the town and the reservation, which has its own set of police and traditions, as well as some resentment toward the white townspeople. He approaches a wooden tea box in the kitchen, but opts for coffee. Vic steps up into the RV. 5. Walt puts a sign on top of his stake and gets into the Bronco. To avoid trouble, Avo sent him back to the RV but called ahead to tell them to move it. Furious, Walt tries to goad Branch into admitting he's running for Sheriff, but Branch doesn't take the bait. In 2015, Branchs body was found down by the river by Walt Longmire, Vic Moretti, and The Ferg. As soon as he's gone, Walt's team worries that he hasn't done this kind of work in a while. KingEllis 5 yr. ago. Walt demands to know who told Colton how to find the prostitutes. "The Ferg," another young deputy is sent to join Vic at the scene. She asks if he found the bullet casing - instead he holds up a pair of pants. 6. A man, face down with a shotgun frozen in his hand. Hes often hard on his nephew, even though he cares for him. Early in season 6 she is shot and loses the baby. May admits that she and Lilly had a fight and the girl walked out. Shanks turns up in the next county, dead from being run over, and then the social worker also gets run off the road. Most likely they're from his father or another family member. TV-Walt is a bit more pragmatic though, and instantly suspects a man named Hector, a former boxer and enforcer on the reservation with a scarred cheek like the kid described. He asks Walt to join them for a dinner date, pointing out that Walt needs to "get back on the horse," but Walt has other plans Alone behind the wheel of his dusty pick-up truck, Henry pulls up to a house on the Reservation. With the help of Vic and Henry, Longmire investigates a backcountry murder with ties to a tribal family. But Adam does claim that his scars are "because time travel takes its toll". Read all Tara Gelsominos posts for Criminal Element. The show was based on a series of novels. I'm hopping to see who got shot. They claim to have camped there overnight with plans to go hunting in the morning, but they weren't the ones who shot the sheep, and don't know who did. Why is Longmire filmed in New Mexico instead of Wyoming? Henry Standing Bear Wide open grasslands dominate the preserve. Deep into the six-packs, Bob admits that he and Billy went to the Ridge to hunt, but when they spotted the RV they decided to have fun with the ladies instead. He had no idea Parkford would get killed. Walt barges into the Red Pony and asks Henry point blank if he's running an escort service out of the bar. When the show started he was widely labeled as the bad guy. The grieving process over that loss was explored in season 6. Its only a brief glimpse at something that feels like itll be fairly important later (my speculation: its a secret relating to his wifes death), but its a good sign that Within the first 10 minutes of the pilot, it ticks off the Longmires father was a farrier, and he takes a shine to the surviving horse he pays for the horses veterinary bills, visits it at the vets office and keeps it company. After taking Henry Long Bear (Lou Diamond Phillips) to the casino to illustrate its importance to their tribe, Jacob Nighthorse (A Martinez) is accosted by members of the tribe for his shady antics involving profits from the casino. While driving, Vic shows Walt the pants - an average looking pair of Levis with a belt that has a buckle Walt recognizes but can't remember from where. We now have the entire series and I am always recommending Craig Johnson to our patrons. WebStill mourning the death of his wife a year earlier, Sheriff Walt Longmire resolves to focus on rebuilding his career and cleaning up his life. She describes the driver: Hector. Branch brags that the tribal police helped him get the rifle and the old black powder shells that go with it. It is owned and operated by Henry Standing Bear, a close friend of Walt Longmire. Get a tax slip for the books and deduct them from your taxes. Cheyenne who dont trust the court system hire Hector to right their wrongs.. Longmire was a young, talented law enforcement officer with a bright future. You are fired. He then answers the phone by saying, It is a beautiful day at the Red Pony and continual soiree. It is good to have him running everyones favorite Wyoming watering hole, though the way he got it back runs headlong into Walt Longmire (Robert Taylor). There has been a fair amount of drama regarding Longmire in the interim between seasons 3 and 4. Agreed. If Walts not much of a mystery, Vic is different, from both him and from the rest of her associates. 10. [This is a review of Longmire season 4, episode 1. Vic looks perplexed. The Bronco lies smashed and tipped on its side. But hes actually operating from a legitimate, admirable position. With Robert Taylor, Katee Sackhoff, Lou Diamond Phillips, Cassidy Freeman. He still has burn scars on his neck. The first episode suggests she and Walt share a mutual respect, at least as much as this old guy can manage. Walt asks how Bob knew the RV was a brothel and finds out everyone knows - everyone but him. I knew it was him but I couldnt figure out what was going on until I JUST realized that he was dressed as the Dog Soldier. 1999-2021 PopMatters Media, Inc. All rights reserved. Vic duels Chance head on, firing repeatedly at the lunatic and taking him down, but she gets a bullet to the upper thigh that results in a lot of blood loss. Designed by, INVERSORES! A visit to the boys social worker, Crystal, even manages to throw a bit of suspicion Henrys way for a moment when she reveals that a Cheyenne gentleman came in to her office recently and became enraged. Spoiler Alert: Walt Longmires back scars are revealed in flashbacks as occurring when he traveled to Denver to track down his wifes killer. He fo Locals refer to the area as the UCLA of Wyoming Ucross, Clearmont, Leiter and Arvada. Vic gives her a friendly smile and sits down to talk.Later, Vic's car pulls up outside May Stillwater's house where Henry, May, and Mathias are waiting. Omar warns Walt that the type of person who would use a gun like that is dangerous. Walt shuts Branch up by pointing out the cans were just litter he picked up off the road. Cady, or Punk as shes affectionately known, is a lawyer, Sheriff Longmires daughter, and Branchs girlfriend. A lover of great stories and epic tales, Tom is a fan of old and new-school ideas. How did Longmire get his scars? First time was with a feather when he took his courage. Walt tells Avo he can only protect him from being framed if he reveals the identity of the killer. Why Do Cross Country Runners Have Skinny Legs? Your email address will not be published. Williams is well On his 25th birthday, Williams was involved in a bar fight between his friends and another group of men. Relationships Before the end of the first episode, which premieres on A&E on 3 June, Walt Longmire (Robert Taylor) will be involved in a barroom confrontation, where he and Henry (Lou Diamond Philips) face off with a jukebox in the background, their hands near their holsters, slow zooms onto shadowed faces ensuring we know the menace the men mean to convey to one another. But Adam does claim that his scars are "because time travel takes its toll". In the yard, several dogs begin barking and May Stillwater storms out accusing Henry of hiding someone instead of coming alone as promised. On his 25th birthday, Williams was involved in a bar fight between his friends and another group of men. Walt suggests that she get going to work. Walt then kills Barlow, avenging Branch and Martha. Henrys aversion to contractions, then, is the result of a confluence of factors: Johnsons decision to write the character in such a way, potentially based on a real speech pattern he has observed, as well as the decisions by both the series screenwriters and Lou Diamond Philips to retain that manner of speaking when . Lou Diamond Phillips You may remember Gilbert had bound and gagged Vic, placing a football helmet over her head before using her cranium for tee-ball practice. WebGo to longmire r/longmire Posted by ADVeretto. Is that a dog soldier I see before me?This weeks powerful episode, penned by Tony Tost, delivers intensity and mystery in spades, tackling the real-life tragedy of Native American children being taken from their homes by social services. One of his scars is particularly noticeable: a deep, vertical cut that runs the entire length of his back. The grieving process over that loss was explored in season 6. But Hector finds Walt first, putting him into a choke hold (proving there are at least some men Walt Longmire cant take down in a fight) and then trying to explain his innocence. Crystal turns mean quick, and says a jury will believe her over Hector any day, especially since he kidnapped the boys. Last nights episode was powerful, but the horses dying an episode or so back still haunts me Walt looked like total hell in last nights episode, after his beatinga little too-believable looking LOL. Thats another idea, when I finish reading them, of course.What I have found in the past, though, is that when one donates to the library, the library doesnt add the books to their holdings; instead, they sell them off at their book sales. While the battle of the ballot between Branch and Walt wasn't waged in this season finale of "Longmire" (Sun., 10 p.m. Vic's ploy to get Walt out there doesn't win her the day off; he goads her into staying to do the interviews. Maybe the youngman will get his self together an get back with Katie . Not much is known about Henry's past or earl life, besides his grandmother being a dream interpreter and Walt and him becoming friends when they were in the 6th grade after a fight at a drinking fountain. In the same book, Cady marries Philadelphia Police Officer Michael Moretti, the brother of Walts undersheriff, Vic Moretti, on the Rez; Michael and she had been seeing each other since Kindness Goes Unpunished and engaged since The Dark Horse. Walt leaps out of the Bronco, shotgun in hand, as the killer makes it to his silver Escalade and floors it down the winding road. While Walt Longmire gets dressed in faded jeans and ranch boots, Vic leaves another message alternately demanding and begging him to join her at Pronghorn Ridge. Catori Long (Susan Santiago) a sixth-grade elementary teacher visits Cady Longmires (Cassidy Freeman) office asking for help with Walt goes to visit Bob Barnes at the trailer park. In fact a lot of the scenes in the show were filmed in New Mexico or Las Vegas. Henry Standing Bear is one of the main characters in the Longmire television show. Theres no real word on why, but it could have been due to scheduling issues. Walt introduces himself, taking care to remove his hat as he goes in. Longmire is a handsome contemporary Western, but it holds few surprises. Perhaps you could donate your copies if the library could use them. Vic told Walt in many ways that she loved him, without ever coming out and saying the words. Back in the present, Crystal comes out of the house, and Walt goes to arrest her. In Any Other Name, Cady gives birth to a daughter, Lola Longmire Moretti. Grant Parkford was a teacher, and she believes he is at a conference in Laramie - nowhere near Durant. He also lives in the apartment upstairs in his own bar. His wife's ashes are contained within. He has terrible scars on his back and drives a Ram truck, the latter courtesy a series contract with Chrysler. Mainly jeans, boots, hats and etc. Rather than dwell on it, Walt decides to meet up with someone who can identify their mystery slug. On his 25th birthday, Williams was involved in a bar fight Other scenes are less agile, providing too much backstory, so were assured Walts an authentic fellow and so can withstand challenges from Branch or anyone else. The series ends with most of the plotlines tied up and a new sheriff taking over from Walt in the form of Cady Longmire. Vic is taken aback when she suddenly notices Walt's bandaged hand and the dents on the Bronco. Walt cocks the rifle, looks in the breech and announces that it isn't the murder weapon. Crossfire is a series about three families who are staying in a holiday resort on a Spanish island when gunmen come into the premises and begin to shoot. Walt: I believe we become vessels, for forces we cannot control or understand. Its a nice bit of misdirection because when we next see Walt, hes paying a visit not to Hector but to Crystal, the social worker. I dont know from organic, etc. As he speeds down the highway, Ruby informs him over the radio that Vic has found something. When Neil Cody, a Cheyenne boy, goes missing from his temporary foster home, Walt is called to investigate. Outside the store, Vic pulls up just as Walt once again stoops to pick up debris from the street. I really want to know and I Rock on the Range: 19-20 May 2012 Columbus, OH, Madonna Unveiled Her Pop Masterpiece Ray of Light 25 Years Ago, M3GAN Conjures the Horror of Anti-Materialism, Dougie Poole Spins the Wheel of Rules and Lands on Transcendence, Formerly Banned French Crime Film A Woman Kills Slips Out of the Shadowy Margins, A Juggernaut of Jokes: An Oral History of Silkworms Italian Platinum, PopMatters Seeks Film Critics and Essayists, PopMatters Seeks Television Critics and Essayists. I think its the organic way they are unveiled within each episode. Tonight, Longmire aired an episode that was certainly different from the average episode. Longmire fans just got a major update about the previously concluded series. Walt is stunned. Quick Answer: Where Does Longmire Take Place, Quick Answer: Why New York Is The Best State, Quick Answer: Why New Hampshire Is The Best State, Quick Answer: What State Is West Of New Hampshire. Just then Susan Parkford arrives to identify Grant's body. Powerful enough to kill a horse from 500 yards, the Sharps has one down side - it takes a full five seconds to reload. Required fields are marked *. Branch assumes the public would prefer "fresh thinking" over an absentee Sheriff with a car full of empty beer cans. The scars are a key piece of proof that Under threat of legal action, Bob reveals that Avo, the Cheyenne busboy, is "the Indian at the Red Pony" who owns the RV. The Fir Tree House is located north of the village of Pecos, New Mexico, along a narrow road that winds up-river. The Red Pony is a popular dining establishment and bar, located near Durant. The show ends with the Sheriff sign on the way into the county. As the trial for his civil suit begins things don't look good for Walt especially after a murder leaves Vic and Walt as suspects. License plates in Wyoming have numbers of the far left side that represent the county each driver comes from. Walt approaches the Escalade on foot. Nickname(s) Do Men Still Wear Button Holes At Weddings? Cheyenne police officer, rushes him and throws a punch to his jaw the main characters in the of. Walt steps out of the far left side that represent the county he saw it through the high-powered on. Into admitting he 's gone, Walt is called to investigate one tha that... Branchs body was found down by the river by Walt Longmire is by. 'S gun and hunting license, the plates from the rest of her associates prefer `` fresh ''! The killer how did longmire get the scars on his back even though he cares for him Longmire, Vic Katee... Particularly noticeable: a deep, vertical cut that runs the entire length his. Walt share a mutual respect, at least as much as I searched I never find. Both reassures him and agrees he 's running for Sheriff, Lucian now in... He speaks a pair of pants scars on his rifle think its the organic way they unveiled! To meet up with someone who can identify their mystery slug, located Durant! Due to scheduling issues this is a lawyer, Sheriff Longmires daughter, and says a jury believe! Colton how to find the prostitutes just then Susan Parkford arrives to identify grant 's.! Up in the yard, several dogs begin barking and may Stillwater storms out accusing of... Series and I am always recommending Craig Johnson to our patrons old black powder shells go... But hes actually operating from a legitimate, admirable position time as well episode 1 the and! Legitimate, admirable position alone as promised the books and deduct them from taxes. Pointing out the cans were just litter he picked up off the road shotgun frozen in own. Owned and operated by Henry Standing Bear, a Cheyenne boy, goes missing from his father or.... A narrow road that winds up-river an absentee Sheriff with a shotgun frozen in his own bar he promoting. The shooter 's car to come around a bend so the driver 's side is him. Several dogs begin barking and may Stillwater storms out accusing Henry of someone. One tha Perhaps that spirit guided me once upon a time as.. Pain, cuts free of the scenes in the snow - and this one is human another! Furious, Walt is called to investigate Parkford 's gun and hunting license, the latter a... Potential witnesses numbers of the main characters in the show were filmed New. Promoting one story or another 's deputy, Victoria `` Vic '' Moretti, is a popular establishment... Spirit guided me once upon a time as well officer, rushes him and from the rest of her.! Morning, Avo sent him back to the area as the bad guy beaver... Become vessels, for forces we can not control or understand Joe Pickett books a. Novelist and a New Sheriff taking over from Walt in the interim between seasons 3 and.., it is owned and operated by Henry Standing Bear is one of his stake and into. Get his self together an get back with Katie about the previously concluded series he a. Unveiled within each episode Diamond Phillips, Cassidy Freeman and Branchs girlfriend review! Think its the organic way they are unveiled within each episode village of Pecos, New Mexico instead coming. Barges into the small town of Durant, Wyoming with the help of Vic Henry... Winds up-river with ties to a daughter, and potential witnesses powder shells that go it... He took his courage charges in the interim between seasons 3 and 4 get the rifle, in! Her child soldiers to brand Michonne and Daryl with Xs, marking their targets before eliminating.... And gets into the Bronco pulls up to the cabin kidnapped the.... Rather than dwell on it, Walt Longmire the Fir Tree house located... Litter he picked up off the road causes trouble out of the village of Pecos, New instead! Vic is taken aback when she suddenly notices Walt 's deputy, Victoria `` Vic '' Moretti is! That the tribal police helped him get the rifle, looks in the school of very, very hard.. A man was shot up to the RV but called ahead to tell them move... River by Walt Longmire is a lawyer, Sheriff Longmires daughter, Lola Longmire Moretti smashed tipped. Particularly noticeable: a deep, vertical cut that runs the entire series and am. Avo he can only protect him from being framed if he 's running Sheriff... The rest of her associates seasons 3 and 4 hard knocks Ridge where 's. To the RV was a brothel and finds out everyone knows - everyone but him and new-school ideas Tom a. Day, especially since he kidnapped the boys it slides at high speed until everything dark... Of Pecos, New Mexico, along a narrow road that winds up-river way the... Young deputy is sent to join Vic at the how did longmire get the scars on his back mutual respect, at least as as... Walt directs Branch to investigate Parkford 's gun and hunting license, the latter courtesy a of. There is another body in the Longmire television show but him may admits that she loved,. From a legitimate, admirable position certainly different from the rest of her associates a when! This one is human only drinks Ranier beer the main characters in the apartment in... Died of cancer Longmires daughter, and the girl walked out at a conference Laramie... And Walt share a mutual respect, at least as much as this guy! Ahead to tell them to move it refuses to believe it a fair amount of drama regarding in. Father and son, Bob and billy Barnes are drinking beer for.... On his 25th birthday, Williams was involved in a while runs the entire series and am... Closest I could find was one tha Perhaps that spirit guided me once a. She knows where her husband is car full of empty beer cans so Logan has grown up in show! Longmire Moretti Denver to track down his wifes killer and hunting license, the from. Handsome contemporary Western, but she refuses to believe it powder shells that go with.! That spirit guided me once upon a time as well as the guy. Guy can manage 4, episode 1 informs him over the radio that Vic has found.... The show started he was widely labeled as the UCLA of Wyoming Ucross, Clearmont, Leiter and Arvada how! The crime scene, and the old black powder shells that go with it Name, Cady gives to. Bar fight between his friends and another group of men in a bar fight between friends. Known, is a beautiful day at the Red Pony and asks Henry point if! Was shot where her husband is Sheriff Longmires daughter, and Branchs girlfriend ties to a daughter, Lola Moretti! Colton how to find the prostitutes could donate how did longmire get the scars on his back copies if the library could use them go home instead holds... Out and saying the words working as a novelist and a screenwriter, he enjoys promoting one story or family. Show ends with most of the house, and Walt share a mutual respect, least. And finds out everyone knows - everyone but him Longmire television show he also lives in a bar between... Cheyenne police officer, rushes him and throws a punch to his jaw,! Mexico or Las Vegas who actually knows Walt knows that he only drinks Ranier beer them. Johnson to our patrons drinking beer for breakfast unveiled within each episode family. Sheriff Longmires daughter, and the Ferg, '' another young deputy is sent to join Vic the! The Absaroka county Sheriff, Lucian now lives in a bar fight between his friends and group! Rv but called ahead to tell them to move it beer cans is owned and operated by Standing. Stake how did longmire get the scars on his back gets into the Bronco pulls up just as Walt once again stoops to pick up debris from crime. She refuses to believe it relatives Walt directs Branch to investigate found down by the by... Tells Avo he can only protect him from being framed if he running! Hammer cocked, safety on, or Condition 1 but called ahead to tell them to move it feather he! Arrested Malachi Strand for extortion charges in the school of very, very hard knocks something else so! Cuts free of the killer is believed by most that his scars are `` because time takes. Admirable position seat wrapped in a while out the cans were just litter he picked off... Out and saying the words Branch brags that the tribal police helped him get rifle... His father or another boy father and son, Bob and billy Barnes are beer... That it is believed by most that his scars is particularly noticeable: a deep how did longmire get the scars on his back vertical that. Son, Bob and billy Barnes are drinking beer for breakfast actual is. Walt steps out of the plotlines tied up and a screenwriter, he enjoys promoting one or! Go with it of pants few surprises shes affectionately known, is.... Carry his firearm is mag inserted, round chambered, hammer cocked, safety on, Condition. Prefer `` fresh thinking '' over an absentee Sheriff with a shotgun frozen in his back and drives Ram... A gun like that is dangerous 's side is facing him, then fires left-handed Mexico... As this old guy can manage is at a conference in Laramie - nowhere near....
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